Cognitive Distortions | Spectrumly Speaking ep. 123

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IN THIS EPISODE:

(28 mins) In this episode, hosts Haley Moss and Dr. Lori Butts discuss the psychological phenomena of cognitive distortions, and discusses how to identify and overcome them.

 

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Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.

For more about Haley, check out her website: haleymoss.net And look for her on Twitter: twitter.com/haleymossart For more about Dr. Butts, check out her website: cfiexperts.com

Have a question or story for us? E-mail us at SpectrumlySpeaking@gmail.com

CLICK HERE FOR PREVIOUS EPISODES

 

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:  

 

HALEY MOSS (HM):  

Hello, and welcome to Spectrumly Speaking. I’m Haley Moss at attorney, author artists, and I’m autistic. As usual, I’m very blessed to have an amazing co host. And I’m really excited to have her kick things off. Today. She is the one and only…

DR LORI BUTTS (LB):  

Hi, I’m Dr. Lori Butts. I’m a psychologist and an attorney. 

HM:  

I tried to give you a good intro.

LB:  

You’re amazing. You could be the sidekick to any, any opening act to really make everybody feel feel special. And welcome when you introduce them. It’s really nice.

HM:  

I kind of want to do intros kind of like Jeopardy going forward. So I watched Jeopardy every night because I can and I love the intro package is like “This is Jeopardy! Our contestants are a psychologist and an attorney from Miami, Florida, Dr. Lori Butts!”

LB:  

I love it. I love it.

HM:  

I’m doing it next time.

LB:  

Every time I testify, I would like you to introduce me like that.

HM:  

I’m gonna do it just like Jeopardy, and we’re gonna have that for our new intro for 2022 obviously is like, “this is Spectrumly Speaking”.

LB:  

I like it. I like it a lot.

HM:  

I try to enjoy what we do. 

LB:  

You do a great job you make you give me a smile every time. I genuinely

HM:  

I think that’s also what I think about like, we’ve been doing this for three years together.

LB:  

Three years?

HM:  

We’ve been together since 2019. So 2020, 2021, and now 2022.

LB:  

Oh, my goodness. Wow. Haley, I didn’t even realize that. See what happens when you get older, everything goes a lot faster. So just be prepared for your life to go on hyper, hyper focus speed moving forward.

HM:  

The last like two years have extremely blurred together?

LB:  

Yes. Uh huh.

HM:  

So this is like, the second or third iteration of 2020 already.

LB:  

This isn’t really 2022. This is 2020: the third go round. 

HM:  

But yeah, it’s been a quite the journey we’ve had and we’re still having. So I always enjoyed that we just are able to chat with each other to I always find it really fun. And today, we’re actually going guest-less. And we’re having a discussion where I think I get to do a little bit more learning from you today. So I’m personally excited. We’re talking about something in psychology, that’s called “cognitive distortions”. And when I was doing a little bit of research for today’s episode, I was like, wow, this is just a lot to unpack. So, since you are also a psychologist, we are lucky enough to have your expertise. And can you kick us off by telling us what cognitive distortions are?

LB:  

Sure. So I mean, it’s an easy way to kind of, it’s a thinking error. So, um, and we all do it, it’s not it, you know, it’s on a spectrum. So, we do it either where it’s just kind of an error in thinking so, um, that thought that when somebody how about this, let me give you a little example: when people are when you’re at a cocktail party or at a function or something, and people are talking and looking at you and a group and talking and looking back, and you thinking, they’re talking negatively about you, when it’s just, they’re not talking anything about you, and they’re just having a conversation, but they just happen to be glancing in your way. And you interpret that as, Oh my gosh, I’m wearing an ugly shirt, or, or I’m doing something wrong and they’re talking, they’re talking about me, that’s one kind of little example, it can happen. So it can happen like just very quickly. And it’s a it’s a shorthand, and our brains that we do to interpret the world and sometimes our shorthand are, are very negative in scope and not functional in scope. And so it can, it can be like a pervasive way of viewing the world. And it turns out in a negative way, and it’s not adaptive, meaning it’s not helpful to the person that’s making those judgments and those errors. What you can how you can, I think, what’s more up your alley, what you can understand the whole discussion about implicit bias, okay. So that’s, that’s kind of a similar way to understand cognitive distortions. So it’s a it’s a, it’s a distorted way of viewing the world that our brain uses shortcuts. So implicit bias is not somebody who’s necessarily racist, but your brain is making a shortcut and a bias interpretation about someone. A cognitive distortion is a distorted way that a person is viewing the world and it’s not helpful in that view. And I’m trying to make it broad because there’s a lot of different categories

HM:  

Are you talking about the networking event, my first kind of gut feeling, I’m like, is this the same as when I go there? And I think everybody hates me or thinks, yes, yes. Even though chances are, they’re probably not paying attention to anything that I say or do. But you still have this anxiety inside of you that like, everybody hates me.

LB:  

Exactly. 

HM:  

And something on that note that kind of makes me curious, is, are a lot of our cognitive distortions grounded in reality or is this just something that we kind of almost like play tricks on ourselves with? Like, I know, everybody doesn’t hate me, but I realized that I’m very self conscious, because of the way that I move and interact with the world, especially someone who communicates differently. So it’s not that that everybody hates me is maybe a little bit of an overgeneralization. But are they think I’m weird, but they’re absolutely going to be people who think I’m pretty strange.

LB:  

Yeah, so it, you know, none of it’s based in, you know, everything’s always based on a little bit of, of truth. But, but, but what happens is, it gets kind of blown out of proportion. So you have one kind of experience, and then you decide that that experience is all of your experiences. So like, what you’re saying somebody judges you is weird. And now you think everyone thinks that you’re weird.

HM:  

That makes a lot more sense. Because I think that a lot of us do this in our especially in relationships, especially for like, fight with partners, or things like that, we assume that everything they do is bad, or that they are out to get us when really, most relationships are a mix of both good and bad. And usually, you obviously probably stay because the good outweighs the bad. And you love someone but right, that’s kind of, I’m just trying to think this through of like, what would make sense or what most people may experience. So this doesn’t seem like something that’s overly clinical that just applies to certain groups of people, because this is something that probably a lot of us do deal with, and we just didn’t know it has a name.

LB:  

Right? It applies to everybody. Everybody does it, and it has a name. And

HM:  

okay, so this isn’t everybody thing. This isn’t like a neurodiversity. neurodivergent thing, or I thought it might could, but I guess maybe it could be amplified in certain ways because of identity, or other other mental health disabilities or something similar, I guess I’m just trying to make sure that I have a grasp on it of like, Wait, everybody has these types of feelings, it’s not a meet me thing.

LB:  

Exactly. And it’s about different things. So everybody has their thing, right? Everybody has, um, you know, and, and like I said, kind of at the beginning, it can be really, really disruptive and be, you know, rise to the level of needing, you know, treatment or it can be something that is just kind of minor that you need to catch yourself and say, “oh, okay, I’m doing this again, I’m okay, I can go to this networking event, people are all going to have different opinions of me. But at the end of the day, everybody’s really concerned about themselves. And it’s not all about me”, and you can use self talk to kind of correct the thinking errors that you’re having. And and when you do the self talk to correct the thinking errors, they become less and less pervasive.

HM:  

So how do we get into this — I think, excuse me, this is probably the wrong word to say but maybe like — that headspace to be able to realize that that’s happening and to say, “Okay, you are not thinking that that’s probably not realistic, or that’s probably not what’s happening”. And I think about this because I was also a psych major. I think a lot of this also feels like fundamental attribution error stuff where we You seem like the worst and we think that it’s never something with us but always something with like everybody else, or, or that we assume the worst. Like, I always think of fundamental attribution error with people that are driving. Yeah, they’re purposely a jerk. Right? And we know that chances are they’re late or something else is going on. But we always kind of assume the worst.

LB:  

Right. That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. So now this this is more than what we’re talking about is a little more about personal. But yes, it this is a broad, this is a broad kind of category all in that field, all in that area. Absolutely.

HM:  

Fascinating stuff our brains do. 

LB:  

Yeah, I mean, I’m trying to think so. So just like what you’re saying, you have an interaction with someone, either it’s, it’s a stranger, or somebody that you’re close to, and they don’t respond in a way that you expect them to respond. And you internalize that as something negative that you did, as opposed to, they’re having a bad day, they’re distracted with work, they’re overwhelmed. You know, all of those things, you start thinking that it’s all about you and that you’ve done something wrong, and then you start judging yourself, and, and it can lead you down it. So that’s when you start catching yourself. Yes. When can you catch yourself? And you talk yourself through it and say, Wait, this isn’t about me. I’m doing okay. They’re just having a bad day. We all have bad days, or we all get distracted, or we’re all overwhelmed report. And it’s not a big deal. I can just move forward from this. I got it, you know.

HM:  

Once you realize all the stuff your brain does, it gets really exhausting just to think about like, wow, my brain does a lot of interesting stuff.

LB:  

Mm hmm. Our brains do a lot of interesting things a lot. And the first step is just kind of listening to your brain and and hearing where it’s going. Because if you’re, you know, that’s called Insight, right? So, so in until you recognize that the first step is kind of recognizing that something is uncomfortable or so you don’t want to be that way. Or you don’t want to feel that when you walk into a room, you don’t want to feel that self conscious. Okay, so what can I do about it? What is my brain doing? What are the thoughts that I’m having that are leading me to believe that everyone’s thinking negative about me, everybody, you know, all these other things, and then re reworking it through. So it is. But once you start reworking it through, then the new script becomes the new, the new way to perceive the world.

HM:  

So the new script is not that everybody hates me. It’s that most people don’t. And then I think you could realistically replace with something like most people don’t know me, I should give them the chance or right. Or I know that I am pretty cool. And now I have to convince other people that I’m pretty cool. 

LB:  

Well, I don’t know if you’ve got to convince them. 

HM:  

But you don’t have to, but you want people to know you’re cool. 

LB:  

Right. You just do the best that you can. And if they think that you’re cool, that’s great, you know, and I’m doing the best that I can and XYZ and I’m putting my best foot forward. And I’m just, you know, that’s all you can do. You can’t control what they think or feel. But you can control what you’re doing and you just put your best foot forward.

HM:  

I think it might be better to think about these things sometimes after before interactions or situations happen. Because I think in the moment, it’s very hard to kind of course correct. Or to think right now, this is not true, I think I think then you can end up kind of beating yourself up in a way that might not be healthy, but I’m not 100% Certain, I just worry.

LB:  

You’re right, but you can take note, that’s the time to take note and say, Okay, I need to think about this when I’m in a quiet space or after the situation as to what you know, what, what to break it down what happened and why I was thinking this, and then to shift it over and say, “Okay, now that’s not realistic. And that might be realistic, but I can’t control that” or, you know, then you can kind of go through the thoughts and what was really, you know what you decided was the defining moment that caused you to think XYZ. And is that really true? Or is that not you know, are there other alternatives and other ways to think about it that are more positive. And the idea is to, you know, to to get you to be able to see the more positive side of things because then you’ll be less anxious or less self conscious. And those kinds of have negative emotional states.

HM:  

I think my next question is, and this is probably a whole other episode and of itself, but how do we do that without bordering on toxic positivity? 

LB:  

Yeah. 

HM:  

Sorry. That’s I know, that probably is a very deep question. I think we can probably talk about toxic positivity all day long, especially because we are typically in autism podcast when we do get into interesting psych topics. And I’m sure a lot of us have heard, it’s okay, everybody’s on the spectrum, or we’ve heard all sorts of other things like, at least your brain works, or, or at least you don’t have a terminal illness. Or, on the bright side, you’ll meet people who accept you, even though maybe you know, it’s sometimes harmful when you need support, or you need someone to say, that does suck right now, but that’s a whole other. That’s a whole other little tangent that my brain just went on thinking about this out loud.

LB:  

Yeah, no, I understand what you’re saying. 

HM:  

How do we say exactly like, how do we stay realistic, but also optimistic?

LB:  

right? It’s all about so when you walk into a room, and you think everyone’s thinking that you’re weird, that’s not accurate. There’s just no, there’s no way in hell that everyone in the room thinks that you’re weird or strange. There may be one or two people, that’s fine. But but it’s not. It’s not, you know, 50 or 20, even. And so it’s, and you can’t, no matter what you do, those two people you’re not going to convince so you and you can’t focus on those two people. So that’s the way to kind of work it through in your head and say, you know, I’m, I am different, but I’m not weird. And I’m not. And I’m, you know, I’m smart, and I’m fine. And I’m doing the best that I can. So it’s keeping it it’s, it’s keeping it reality, and also, you know, turning to people that will keep you grounded, and reality focused, as well. And at the end of the day, all all humans are weird and strange. Everybody has a quirk.

HM:  

And if you’re going to go down that rabbit hole, other animals probably think we’re strange. I mean, I think my cat thinks I’m weird. Like, she doesn’t get it. She’s not a person. She probably thinks all all of us are weird.

LB:  

And we certainly are. Especially when we make them wear little outfits and stuff.

HM:  

I am not the person who makes my animals wear outfits. In all fairness, I probably am a little concerned if you’re making your animals for outfits because I don’t think your animals consented to that or want that. I used to put the antlers on my dog at the holidays for pictures every couple years. And I knew it and I knew they were not happy with me. 

LB:  

Right.

HM:  

I always thought it was funny. 

LB:  

Yeah, exactly. It’s funny for a few minutes.

HM:  

It was funny because my last dog used to jump all over the place. You always leap around and you take these like flying leaps outside and he looks like a reindeer. So it was very fitting for him. It was very fitting for him whenever I’d actually be able to stick on the antlers for maybe like 30 seconds and be like, Look, he’s actually right here. Right. He’s living up. He’s living up to his descriptor.

Oh, what a sweet pup. 

HM:  

I miss him. 

LB:  

Yeah. Yeah. Understandably so.

HM:  

That took a quick, unexpected dark.

LB:  

Well, that happens. That happens. That’s okay.

HM:  

So if cognitive distortions are an actual big issue in our lives, what should we be doing? Should we be getting help for that? Should we be talking about that with a professional? What do you recommend? 

LB:  

If it’s really interfering with your life, like I, I mean, I can think of some examples that are just way, you know, way, way way interfering and problematic and, and, you know, sometimes, you know, helps people break the law. And then there’s, then the next level in my mind is people that are, you know, they don’t engage in certain activities like, um, like doing networking events or socializing or applying for jobs or, you know, doing it totally them back from progressing in their lives. And in that those categories, I would say, you know, somebody needs to see a professional, right? If it’s, if it’s interfering to the point where it’s impeding you from making progress or participating in important activities in your life, and I think you certainly need to speak to a mental health professional, to help you unravel this and work on it. And then for the rest of us, that it interferes, and is not all consuming, but it you know, ramps up in, you know, in, in performing functions, then you you need to have some insight into it and start thinking, Wait, this is, this is a cognitive distortion, this is something that is not helping me, and my relationship is not helping me in my work environment, it’s not helping me make friends, it’s, you know, it’s it. Here’s another example, um, you know, thinking that, well, I mean, we talked about it beginning, but thinking that somebody in your relationship you’re with is doing something purposeful. As opposed to, you know, they have a lot of other things going on, and you can be intolerant of that person. Because of your thoughts, your you decided that because they are not returning your call or your text message within, you know, an hour that they’re being selfish, and they’re selfish person and they need to be out of your life. Well, you know, that’s a that might be, you know, a distorted thinking is a distorted assessment of their behavior, as opposed to giving them a break, and you might end or chill that relationship, because you’re deciding that this behavior is, you know, is it some, some negative thing, and I’m trying to be general to try and try and make it fit a lot of different categories of, maybe I’m not being articulate.

HM:  

I think that makes sense. It’s just that it’s a lot to take in. 

LB:  

Okay. So the first thing is just kind of catching in, and then saying, is that really, is that really legitimate? Are there other ways to think about this that are more positive, and the way that I interact with the world more positive about me, or more positive about other people or other things. And, and, and, you know, we want to turn off the negativity, switch and try to be the did not, not toxically positive, but be more positive and be more accepting and mean more. It’s less about a negative interpretation about you than it is just everybody’s trying to do the best they can to get along and have an open communication with with somebody that you’re close with, as you can have an open communication with 50 people at a networking event, but if it’s, with your personal relationships have conversate. And they’ll be like, wait, no, I wasn’t thinking that, you know, oh, I just I had 10 things going on. I’m sorry, it that instead of jumping to conclusions and negative conclusions about a situation.

HM:  

So we have to get better at communicating with ourselves and with others. I think we can. I think that seems pretty doable. Yes. And that makes me hopeful that if this is something that’s affecting our listeners, or US in particular, then it seems pretty doable to kind of have that moment once they have to kind of sit back or maybe ask a friend or other person, like, what’s going on or express how we feel and what we’re thinking and then be able to put that thought to bed, especially if it’s not true. And if it turns out that it is true, then maybe it’s not a distortion. 

LB:  

Right. Exactly. Right. 

HM:  

And if it turns out that your friend does think you’re strange, then at least you know, or I, and I’m convinced only a true friend would tell you to your face that you’re strange.

LB:  

Right, exactly. And that’s a keeper right?

HM:  

If someone told me that I’d be like, cool. You’re too because you actually admitted it. I think that that’s super interesting. 

LB:  

Good. I know you were a little, little. What’s the word?

HM:  

I was a little apprehensive about because I was like, It’s not that I was anxious about it. It’s more of like, I don’t wouldn’t have what to say or if it’s just gonna go over my head because even just prepping when we talked about the topic without really knowing much like a little bit high level stuff.

LB:  

I hope I broke it down so it doesn’t seem so high level and it just makes sense and, and it’s helpful rather than just overwhelming.

HM:  

I think it’s a great start and I’m sure that there’s other fun topics that might be fun to deconstruct also, maybe in the future, we could have more different professionals to bring on to this conversation as well, because it’s just fun to listen. And it’s fun to learn. And I think a lot of folks who listen to us are also wanting to learn.

LB:  

I hope so too. I would think that that’s why you’re listening to us is to learn

HM:  

Or maybe you just think we’re funny because of our intros.

LB:  

Well, that’s a new hook. There you go. We’ll get more listeners because of your new show.

HM:  

I liked it. And until our next episode, we’ll be set. We’ll be putting a pause on today’s returning champion, Dr. Lori Butts.

LB:  

What’s my tally so far?

HM:  

Um, well, we’ve been here for three years. And I don’t know what your cash winnings are. Because I don’t think we actually we were volunteers. So I don’t know what your cash winnings from spectrum li would be for volunteers. So the amount of hours we’ve put into this probably…

LB:  

It’s definitely over 2 million.

HM:  

You would be a record holder. 

LB:  

I’ll take it.

HM:  

I’m also just very excited because there’s been a lot of historic runs on the show. So that’s a whole other — the show of Jeopardy not — we don’t have any historic grounds here. We just have a lot of very interesting guests and topics. So I think we learned a lot today and it’s probably a bit to digest. So if you want to learn more, then be sure to also check out our friends at differentbrains.org and check out their Twitter and Instagram @DiffBrains. And don’t forget to look for them on Facebook. If you want to say hello to yours truly, you can visit me at haleymoss.com or on all major social media. I hope to hear from you soon and look forward to connecting.

LB:  

You can find me at CFIexperts.com and please be sure to subscribe and rate us on iTunes and don’t hesitate to send questions to spectrumlyspeaking@gmail.com. Let’s keep the conversation going.