Cover Image - Autism & Eating Disorders, With Brenda Grund | Spectrumly Speaking Ep. 132

Autism & Eating Disorders, with Brenda Grund | Spectrumly Speaking ep. 132

 

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IN THIS EPISODE:

Content warning: discussion of eating disorders

(AUDIO – 36 minutes) In this episode, hosts Haley Moss and Dr. Lori Butts speak with Brenda Grund. Brenda is a Psychosocial Therapist and the Project Manager of Centrum Spectra: Expertise in Restrictive Eating Disorders in Women on the Autism Spectrum. Being on the Spectrum herself, she had been working in the field of Mental Healthcare for over 10 years when she noticed the the lack of specialized care for autistic women with eating disorders. So, she decided to take matters into her own hands and started Centrum Spectra. She now trains Mental Healthcare professionals, and provides individual guidance for woman with restrictive eating disorders on the autism spectrum.

For more about Brenda’s work: centrumspectra.com

 

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Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.


Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.

For more about Haley, check out her website: haleymoss.net And look for her on Twitter: twitter.com/haleymossart For more about Dr. Butts, check out her website: cfiexperts.com

Have a question or story for us? E-mail us at SpectrumlySpeaking@gmail.com

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:    

HALEY MOSS (HM):  

Hello, and welcome to Spectrumly Speaking. I’m Haley Moss and author, attorney advocate. And I’m autistic. I feel very lucky every week to get to share Spectrumly Speaking with all of you, and you probably know this by now, but I do have an absolutely fantastic co host and friend to the neurodivergent community. And let’s let her have her moment in the sun today…

DR LORI BUTTS (LB):  

Good morning. I’m Dr. Lori Butts. I’m an attorney and a psychologist and happy to be here.

HM:  

How you doing? 

LB:  

Good. How are you? 

HM:  

I am good. So I think we were talking offline for a minute that we are recording right before a holiday weekend and holiday weekends always just feel like — why? So when you have like a Monday off and you’re like, What day of the week, is it? And then you’re confused for like three days. And then you’re somehow expected to shoehorn four days of like, in four days, you’re supposed to shoehorn like five days of work, and it’s very anxiety inducing. Yes, yeah. So I do not like holiday weekends as much as I do like holiday weekends. And of course, because we are very festive here at all times on the Spectrumly stage, we have a guest. And our guest is Brenda grunt and Brenda is a psycho social therapist and the project manager of Centrum spectra expertise in restrictive eating disorders and women on the autism spectrum. Being on the spectrum herself, she had been working in the field of mental health care for over 10 years, when she noticed the lack of specialized care for autistic women with eating disorders. So she decided to take matters into her own hands and started Centrum spectra. She now trains mental health care professionals and provides individual guidance for women with restrictive eating disorders on the autism spectrum. Welcome to the show.

BRENDA GRUND (BG):  

Ah, thank you so much for having me. This is so great. I’m really, really grateful to be invited at the show. Yeah, and I would love to to go into the topic with you guys. And then see what comes out of it. I’m really looking forward to today. I believe it’s morning on your end, right?

LB:  

Yes!

BG:  

Oh, it’s the end of the afternoon here. So that’s interesting. Yeah.

HM:  

That is the coolest part of this, I think is that we get folks from all over the world who join us and want to share what they know and whatnot. So to get us and our listeners involved in to get the ball rolling, can you share with us how you became involved in the autism community?

BG:  

That’s a very good question. Um, I’ve been working in the eating disorder department for quite some time. Also, I’m on the spectrum myself. I’ve known that for a long, long time, but I got it officially diagnosed when I was 32. Working in the eating disorder field, I saw like women in groups, we were given group therapy, and there would always be like one or two women that just didn’t seem to respond well to the treatment we were giving. And it was sort of, I don’t know how to put it correctly. Let me let me give it a go. Sometimes the treatment wouldn’t work at all, they wouldn’t make any progress progress, or they would just get worse, actually. And I was I was seeing this happening. And I talked to colleagues about it, like, Are you noticing this as well? And, you know, I thought about it was like, these women seem sort of autistic, you know, and I felt like, it’s probably just me, because I’m seeing autism everywhere, you know, because I’m autistic myself. But then, you know, I dive into the topic a bit deeper and talk to people about it. I did some research online, and then I decided to actually do actual research on the matter, because I thought, Okay, well, if this is not working, then we need to figure out what is working for these women. Because otherwise, you know, anorexia has a deadly disease. I mean, it’s this is, yeah, it’s quite an important topic to know how to treat these these women with their issues. Yeah.

LB:  

What are your thoughts about why eating disorders are prevalent in autistic women?

BG:  

Oh, there can be various reasons. I’m not quite good with these sorts of questions, because I’m meant to give sort of a general answer – well it’s usually not that general and this has nothing to do with your question. This is more about how my brain works. I think a lot of women on the spectrum, they tend to be so in their head, and so on the cognitive level that they sort of lose connection to their bodies. Or get really overwhelmed, because they have too much feelings in your body. Like, I know, women on the spectrum that like when they eat some of them, they feel all these digestive things happening in their stomach and their intestines and, and it’s just, it’s like too much, it’s too loud, too noisy, it feels too uncomfortable, it makes you feel bloated. It’s like all these sensations are so overwhelming. And then when you don’t eat, you don’t experience the sensation. So like the logical thinking, well, logical thinking would be okay, if I don’t eat, I don’t have to deal with all this. All these physical sensations, these uncomfortable physical sensations and noises that that could be one thing. Another thing can be is that we can, we tend to hyper focus on things. So for instance, when you’re like reading a book, and you’re reading for six to 10 hours, maybe you forget to go to the toilet, but also you forget that you actually need to eat and drink something. And when you’re hyper focused for most of the day, every day, it could just very well happen that you just forget to eat to the point of where, at some point, your body doesn’t even give off signals anymore, like, hey, you need some food, or you need something to drink, because it’s been giving off signals for so long, and you don’t respond to it. So at some point, you just don’t notice that you’re hungry anymore. And that can go on for years, really? So yes, two examples of how this works or can work. Let me put it that way. Yeah.

HM:  

Something that I find really interesting here as well is that we think about food and things as a very sensory experience. I know for me that picky eating has been a huge part of my journey. As an autistic person, it’s something that I am still struggling to work through. Do you think that even things like how the textures of food, how it’s presented and all and even that sensory aspect is also part of what might lead to eating disorders in autistic people, even if the goal isn’t necessarily just losing weight or body image based?

BG:  

Definitely, definitely. Raise you mentioned that and it makes me think of something that I would like to share as well as that. Especially women, when they hit puberty, they tend to hit puberty quite young. This could start at the age of nine, and you know, as early as the age of nine. Because of all these hormonal changes, and in combination with being on the spectrum, we can become very hypersensitive, that at some point, we sort of reach an age where we’re like, 1213, and we go to high school, or at least in here in Holland, we do or and then we get all these changes of environment, where you would normally in school have your same classroom and the same teacher for years and years. Now you have to go to different classroom, you have different teachers, you there’s all new people, the school is huge. You’re meant to figure things out on your own. And at the same time, there’s all these hormones going through your body. Some women, they you know, some some, some young women, they get braces around that time as well. It doesn’t help eating. So there’s there can be so many combining factors. But a lot of these factors all come together around the age of like 12, 13, and it can become really problematic. Yes, so I think also, the sensory part of it, when I get older structures, the sensitivity to certain tastes and smells, they can become so overwhelming when you’re when you already are overwhelmed. And it comes on top of it and you get extra sensitive because of hormones and extra stress. And yeah, it can really go out of control because of it. Yeah. I think that these sensory issues play play a huge part in eating disorders as well, among autistic women.

LB:  

I would assume that that’s a piece that would be that would be a different piece of the treatment for somebody who is neurotypical versus somebody on the spectrum other other other other treatment, treatment issues that are different for artists, women that are autistic versus neurotypical women with eating disorders.

BG:  

Well, I would like to start off with the most off Here’s one because I think that while you’re in the Netherlands, we tend to focus a lot on group therapy, because I think everybody’s going to do our support groups and, you know, recognition with each other and each other’s topics and stuff. But like for autistic women, sometimes it’s just too overwhelming to be in a group, where there’s like all the women with all issues, and it can be too much input really to have to listen to other people’s stories and to have that much contact. And it can be really intense. And it would make more sense to do like one on one therapy, one on one sessions, rather than doing group therapy. I mean, I know it’s cheaper to do group therapy. And it’s more expensive to do do everything one on one, but I really do think that for most autistic women with eating disorders, it will be first choice for appropriate treatment. 

LB:  

That makes a lot of sense. And are there other treatment interventions that that are different?

BG:  

I think also the approach of the, the therapist is very much important, I think we there’s this sort of stigma that eating disorders are based on wanting to be thin, and, and that we are sort of vain and want to look good. Well, as a matter of fact, a lot of autistic women, they couldn’t care less how they look, you know, some of them are so not interested in their appearance that they were like, really baggy clothes. And, you know, it’s, I mean, the approach should be like, hey, there’s an issue, what makes it that it’s so difficult for you to eat? Rather than, hey, why, why do you want to be thin? So yeah, the mindset of the therapist is also in the approach of the therapist is also very important. Coming to think about it, I think that in regular eating disorder treatment, the main goal is like what, at least in clinics, the main goal is to gain weight as quickly as possible, because when you have a very low weight, it should go up as soon as possible, basically, so you can leave the clinic. And you’re healthy again, of course. But this is the thing that doesn’t really work for autistic women, because it’s just, it’s too fast, it’s too fast and too much. And then of course, they will gain weight, they get dismissed from the clinic, then their home. And it’s like complete panic, because they’ve gained lots of weight, if you’re completely different, they didn’t get time to adjust to their new situation. And also not to integrate this whole new way of eating and the amounts that they’re eating that yeah, it’s bound to go wrong as soon as they leave the clinic. Yep. And I think what I’ve noticed, and also research shows that like, very small steps in making changes on a daily basis, we’re not making changes on a daily basis, but making small changes, and getting used to them. And then taking it day by day, step by step is really the best way to go. So so don’t give somebody a whole treatment plan, like a whole eating list for the day. Like, okay, this is what you’re going to eat from that one. And, you know, you see this huge list of everything that you need to eat that you haven’t been eating before. And rather than that, it’d be more helpful to be like, Okay, what is it that you’re already eating? And how can we expand that to the, to the point where it’s still sort of, like, manageable for you to deal with? So that could look like okay, if you eat a bowl of cereal in the morning? Can you add a couple of spoons of such and such to it so that you can increase the amount? And then you also don’t have to think about oh, do I need to eat something different? Now you can just eat what you’re already eating, but just like, increase the amount, so it stays manageable? And it’s easier to create a solid foundation for your new eating habits, basically. Yeah.

HM:  

I think that’s super interesting stuff. And I also think about that even when I try new things. So I’ll find things that are very similar to things I already like or what not as well, but that’s just my own brain thinking out loud as you’re talking. But yeah, I also want to know more about the work that you do with Centrum spectra and how people can learn more because I’m sure that there’s plenty of Autistics who may be struggling with an eating disorder and either don’t realize it because maybe they aren’t just solely trying to lose weight, but maybe it’s a control or sensory or CO occurring issue and I also You remember learning more even about how autistics are people who do have interact. anorexic, or anorexic people are also more likely to be autistic or something of that nature. So I’m always curious, and how can people learn more? And about the work that you’re doing? I want to know more about you do?

BG:  

Oh, well, you can always go to my website, www.CentrumSpectra.com. There’s some information on there. But always, like, when you have any question, you can always email me. Because some questions are so specific. And, you know, people are welcome to email me, people are welcome to have a short session with me to talk things through. I mean, it’s. Yeah, I mean, people are always welcome. I think it’s always great when you can talk to somebody that also knows like, what it’s like to be on the spectrum and to have issues with eating. And it can be nice to just have a conversation about it rather than, you know, reading dry material. Yeah, so that’s always an option. Yeah, I hope that helps.

HM:  

So to transition, we want to do a segment with you as well, kind of understanding what we can do to be more supportive of our listeners who might be autistic and have an eating disorder or don’t realize that perhaps they have an unhealthy relationship with food or something of that nature. So I think if this is something that does impact us, where would you start with getting help? Like, what would be the first thing that someone should do if they’re recognizing maybe I don’t have a good relationship with food? Maybe I am having this control issue. Maybe it is sensory for me to try new things, or I’ll restrict what I eat due to sensory needs. How do we start that conversation?

BG:  

Oh, that’s a good question. I think that when people feel like, they have an issue with eating, maybe because they’re underweight, or that they just noticed in general that they’re eating, you know, they don’t they’re not eating as much as other people or I don’t know, really depends on the issue. If you’re really concerned about your health, you’re underweight. Other people are also concerned for you go and see your GP to start off with, like, I always say, first off, get get yourself checked out. It’s very important to know, like, what your state, the state of your body is, like, if you’ve got any deficiencies, if you’ve got any, you know, shortcomings on certain, you know, vitamins, minerals. I think that will be the first step to take, get yourself checked out. Are you okay? Physically. So that would be step one. Step two, could be to actually write down what you eat in a day. And because sometimes we can have such a weird idea in our head, like, oh, but I’ve, I’ve eaten enough today. And then when you write it down, it’s like, yeah, but that’s an airport and a knob bar. I mean, that’s just not enough to run your engine on for the whole day, as an adult woman, you know, so it’s great to write things down to actually see, hey, this is what it is, and it’s not what’s in my head, because these two, these can be two different things. Yeah. And when you do find, like, okay, you know, I, I think I’m not eating enough, or I’ve got issues with eating, try and find help also in your local autism community, because there will always be people that are experiencing similar issues to you. You know, we’ve got great places to go also here in the Netherlands, for autistic people to get more information to talk to somebody that has experienced themselves. So there’s, there’s there’s many places where you can go to talk to other people and share, share your thoughts with them. But when it’s really a big issue, always start off with going to GP, I would say, yeah.

HM:  

I think that’s a great piece of advice, because I always think a lot about how inaccessible it is to even go to a GP sometimes. So that’s probably a great place to start.

BG:  

Yeah, I think it is. I think it is and yeah, I mean, I wish there were more health care workers and people working in a medical field that have a certain amount of knowledge about like autism and eating disorders and interaction. Yeah, because here in Holland, usually it’s like when you go to a clinic, because you’re underweight, you have an eating disorder, they deny you treatment, because you’re also autistic. And they tell you like, Oh, I’m sorry, we cannot help you. Because we don’t know how to work with people with autism, or autistic people. And then the other way around, also, you know, it’s also the case, like when, when you want treatment, or if you want some help and guidance with your autism, not treatment, but help and guidance. So yeah, we cannot help you because you’re underweight and you’ve got an eating disorder. So you get sent away there as well. And it’s almost like nobody really wants to take responsibility, because it’s such a delicate topic, you know, I mean, you know, it’s like threatening, it’s life threatening condition when people actually have severe eating disorders. And yeah, but I think that is really sad that they get sent away everywhere, like, Okay, we do not have to deal with you. So goodbye, sorted out by yourself.

HM:  

It sounds like less of that Autistics need the resources so much is that the professionals need to be equipped to provide the resources because it’s very clear that GPs and healthcare workers are out there, and just don’t know what

BG:  

Secretary I and I mean, like, at Central spectra of me and my colleagues, we also give like training to health care professionals. And luckily, we a lot of health care professionals reach out to us to actually, yeah, ask for, to come on location and provide training and provide them with information. And so there are really there are people taking the responsibility, and actually, rather than sending people away educating themselves on how they can work with these women better, so. So I’m really happy about that. But of course, you know, that’s not only my hand, we try to, you know, make ourselves known on the internet. And luckily, you guys found this as well. And yeah, we try to show ourselves online, so people know how to find those so that when they know, like, Okay, we need to have more information, they can ask for a song. So I hope a lot of more health care workers and you know, have mental health care workers who will reach out to us.

HM:  

This makes this all makes me happy. I just had to say that, and that I really appreciate what you’re doing. And I think a lot of health care workers also end up at this because they might suspect that their clients are autistic, but they know that they have an eating disorder, I think a lot about diagnostic overshadowing. It’s something that I’ve been thinking more about the older I get of that if you have an autism diagnosis as a child, that’s the thing that usually is center stage. And if you have other mental health conditions, or another disability at the same time, it might not get the same attention, or it might be completely missed, because the primary focus was on the first diagnosis. So I always find that really fascinating, too. And wonder where that, like my own head is one not really a question, but kind of wondering where that fits into the eating disorder conversation is say, you’re autistic, and you have an eating disorder, that a lot of the focus from professionals might just be on the autism or if you have undiagnosed autism, but you have an eating disorder, most of that focus might just be on the eating disorder, and not exactly. Just something that’s on my head now that I’m thinking a lot about this.

BG:  

Yeah, exactly. Right. I mean, that’s what you’re saying. These are like classic examples. What I hear from from from clients, you know, like that their autism diagnosis has been missed, because everybody has been focusing on the eating disorder, eating disorder. So what you see is that a lot of women they go into, they look for help for the eating disorder, and they could, you know, struggle with your eating disorder and get all sorts of treatment for years and years and years, up to 2030 years. And then finally find out oh, okay, I’m autistic. That makes sense. So now I can really learn how to deal with food and deal with the fact that I’m autistic and learn how I work and make life easier on myself. And a lot of times it starts off with with eating disorder. Yeah. 

LB:  

I can see how it could, how a professional could easily miss that and see that eating disorders refractory to traditional eating disorder treatment, because because of the sensory and the issues that you brought up during, you know, it’s not the typical issues that an eating disorder person would present with and it would be missed. I could easily see how that could be missed. 

BG:  

Yeah, for sure. I mean, it’s, it’s very easy to miss. It’s very difficult. To see like, okay, is this like autistic features that? Or do these symptoms are they like, are they caused by the eating disorder? Or is it the autism, you know, to distinguish like what’s going on because people that are malnourished for a very long amount of time, they tend to start showing autistic. I’ve lost my train of thought so my words there Well, it’s great. Um, they start showing autistic features at some point. Yeah, yeah. So it’s hard then to distinguish like, Okay, what’s going on? This person just has she got an eating disorder, and she’s showing autistic characteristics, because she’s had been having this eating disorder for such a long time, or is you’re actually autistic. Let’s look into that. But before people say, hey, let’s look into that and usually comes after years of treatment, that doesn’t work. Right? Right. That’s a shame. Because the quicker that you actually diagnose it, the better the chances are, that they will be able to, to work with this eating disorder and make something out of it that they can actually manage. Instead of it spiraling out of control.

LB:  

Right. Exactly. Yeah.

BG:  

Because I think that’s one of the great things about knowing that you’re artistic is that you get to know yourself, and you know, where your limits are, and you learn how to deal with, yeah, being artistic and be living life. And, you know, it’s not necessarily that certain things are more possible with maybe they’re possible in a different way. And you just have to take your limits into consideration and learn how to deal with them. And I think that’s the great thing about getting a diagnosis is not that you per se need a professional diagnosis. I mean, there’s also people that self diagnose, but sooner now autistic woman learns that she’s autistic, the quicker her life can become easier because you can learn how to do it. And it can prevent serious, serious eating disorders as well. Yeah.

LB:  

Absolutely. That makes that makes so much sense. When we break it down like that, it just…

HM:  

Really does. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I have a lot to think about today. Yeah, we’re the spectrum Lee bunch and love getting to learn here. Sorry, it’s like, I love it. I just get really excited. Like, wow, I have a lot to think about now.

BG:  

Can I ask a question? Because Haley, you said you were now it’s gonna be about Haley. Again, I I’ve been worried for this. But I’m really curious, like you said, that you had some sensory issues as well with I don’t know if you still have them, or when you were younger, but like, texture wise, or just found it very interesting, because I noticed at some point as well, when I was younger, that I got so much more sensitive to certain smells and tastes, what was that like for you?

HM:  

I feel like for me, I just really struggle with trying new things. But I also the older I got, so for some reason, I don’t have a very good sense of smell. And I know here on spectrally, we have talked about that I’ve recently had COVID. But I promise that my sense of smell is that related to that, because I’ve had a very poor sense of smell, unless it’s very overwhelming for most of my life. So whenever people are like, Oh, we can’t smell anything like, yeah, that’s the norm for me. But I think a lot of my anxiety about trying new things is busting routines. And also, a lot of it, I think eating is a very sensory experience for me. And I began realizing that and I think I also have struggles with interoception. So I don’t always realize when I’m full, because I don’t feel like the body cues happen until I am physically sick. So I know that for some people that just looks like okay, that’s just classic binge eating type thing for me, like no, I just don’t recognize those cues. So I have to actually think about how much I’m eating. Because my body isn’t just gonna go Okay, girl, you’re done, you’re full, go put the fork down. Like that would make sense. Because that’s what is probably healthy. It’s just that your body does it. For me, that’s a problem that I have is that my body just doesn’t pick up on those things. And I feel like if people really didn’t recognize what I eventually figured out and that that’s something that hadn’t happened for a lot of Autistics that they would assume that something is really off kilter that or that I do have more of a tortured relationship with food then it’s just more than my body just will not send the signals to my brain and my brain and body don’t always communicate. It’s the same with like, hot water or being hydrated like I don’t realize I’m dehydrated until I’m almost about to pass out.

BG:  

Oh, yeah, yeah, that sounds so familiar. earlier. Yeah, that sounds so familiar. For me, it’s sort of the other way around like, I did, I didn’t get the signal like, I’m hungry. Well, when I’m stressed, like when I’m relaxed, quite okay, then then I can feel like, oh, I need to eat something. But as soon as there’s like, the tiniest amount of, of pressures or stress, it’s like, I don’t feel anything anymore. I have to remind myself like you need to eat. But it’s kind of the same similar thing, like what you’re describing, just not reading your body signals or your body not giving off enough signals to let you know, like, hey, you’ve actually had enough, you can stop eating now. That’s very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

HM:  

I try to help because I feel like, I didn’t realize that was an awesome thing for years, until other folks started mentioning it or researching it. And one of my friends like, yeah, there’s a lot of interoception differences in the Autistic community. Okay, so it’s not that something is completely busted that I didn’t know what it is. I feel like I go through that a lot. I’m like, is this autism? Is this a typical people thing? Or is this just a me thing?

BG:  

Oh, yeah, I get that I get that sometimes I’m like, is it just, you know, it’s just a normal thing? And am I making a bigger deal out of it? Or am I focusing too much on it? Or is it just my autism or whatever it is, I do tend to experience things more intensely. And it doesn’t necessarily. It doesn’t necessarily matter where it comes from. I think that it’s just great to know that you work like that, and you can work with it. But I know what you mean, like I think about these things on a daily basis, you know, like, honest, is it just me? Is it my autism? Is everybody got this? What’s going on?

HM:  

And then you find out that there are things that like neurotypical just do, like they like their bodies, tell them they’re hungry perfectly every couple of hours. And I’m like — that’s a thing?

BG:  

Wow, that doesn’t work. Like,

HM:  

I think that’s the most fascinating thing when you talk to people, and then you realize that those things are more common than not, you’re like, Oh, okay. This is definitely not an everybody thing.

BG:  

It’s definitely not an everybody thing. I remember, like I had a job, like last year somewhere like, projects. I’ll spare the details. But the main thing was like, I put an alarm clock for every moment that I needed to eat something. So I had like, every day I had these little crickets, because it wasn’t the sound of my alarm clock is crickets going off every couple of hours, like, that’s Brenda that needs, she needs to eat something. And my colleagues will always really make fun of me because of it when in a good way, you know, but for me, it was, yeah, but otherwise, I don’t need I need to do this. How do you?

HM:  

You had to adapt. And I know now that a lot of other apps and stuff that live in your phone, that might be great resources for folks as well. So something that I saw that came up at least specially like the autism influencer space was an app called Timo. And it would basically be great for reminders and scheduling and be like you need to eat, you need to do this brush your teeth do that, like it was really great for productivity for neurodivergent people. And I think a lot about stuff like that. And I know that’s not always what we’re getting into. But there’s so many resources and ways to get creative. Even if you’re just letting crickets go off on your phone. That might be a great way to signal to yourself, if your body’s not giving you the cues, at least your brain knows because your body probably does need enough food to survive no matter who you are.

BG:  

Exactly, exactly. 

HM:  

And try not to beat yourself up for it. I feel like that’s the important thing is like don’t beat yourself up if you make if you’re labeling food or making decisions that might be kind of let you question like, you just have to take care of yourself. And you know what feels right for your brain and your body.

BG:  

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And it’s great to have a healthy connection with food. And I think it’s great. 

HM:  

I want to be mindful of that today too. So I know that this can be a very sensitive topic or a triggering topic for some folks. So I want to do my best to make sure that we are as kind and respectful as possible. When we have talks about this. I’m glad that we did have a discussion about eating disorders here on Spectrumly and I’m so personally grateful to have met you through this.

BG:  

Oh, well, thank you very much. And yeah, same goes for me. I’m really happy that you guys wanted to have me on the show. I’m really happy to be able to share some some information. I mean, some more useful than others. I don’t know. But it’s great to get the conversation started and also let people know that they’re not alone. It’s an autism thing and it’s completely okay. It’s something that you can work with. It’s something that can get better or easier. And yeah, it’s okay. Basically, that: it’s okay.

HM:  

I think that is a beautiful note to end on. What do you think Dr. Butts?

LB:  

Yeah, I think this is great.

HM:  

That this is a that that’s okay. And that this is something that people do experience. So, thank you again Brenda for everything and for all the knowledge that you’ve taught us, please be sure to check out her work through Centrum Spectra, you can visit them online at CentrumSpectra.com. As for the rest of us, be sure to check out differentbrains.org and check out their Twitter and Instagram @DiffBrains. And don’t forget to look for them on Facebook. If you are looking for me, you can visit me at HaleyMoss.com Or you can also say hello on all major social media. I will do my best to respond to things because chances are my brain is a black hole and isn’t very good at it.

BG:  

Great to be able to be honest, isn’t it?

HM:  

I do my best.

BG:  

I love it. 

LB:  

I can be found at CFIexperts.com Please be sure to subscribe and rate us on iTunes and don’t hesitate to send questions to spectrumlyspeaking@gmail.com. Let’s keep the conversation going.

Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.